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الموضوع: fil bo'adi yama

  1. #51
    Bassio Guest

    إفتراضي

    To change the subject from the often talked-about legendary version of Hilmi, we want to talk about the equally-satisfying version of Manyalawi (although less in mythical value in some sort of way) which is also very well-crafted.

    Strangely enough, like the violinist who modulated to rast in Hilmi's version, I can hear here a clear introduction of the nahawand at 5:27 by the qanunji's descending sweep.
    كل شىء مدروس !

    I told you he is a composer

    Manyalawi also apparently ends the nahawand with his famous shift to rast at 8:35 (he executed this move in many of his dors I heard, very conventional .. making you appreciate the more novel ways of Hilmi).

    And he apparently continues Rast for the rest of the next section
    (confirmation needed)
    (Again I want to repeat my question: is the alby 3aleik section in rast? or gaharkah?)

    12:12 notice how he makes a sudden move of closure (because the side approached the end) and the funniest moment is the obvious mess of the instrumentalists who obviously didn't see that one coming and the 12:12 --> 12:21 becomes a very funny salad of sounds

    13:46 the shift to bayyati

    Can anyone analyse the last minute please?

    By the way, can anyone remember the Abdel-Halim parody? Did he sing it in bayyati or in saba? I cannot recall and I don't have the recording.

  2. #52
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    25

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Bassio مشاهدة مشاركة
    Manyalawi also apparently ends the nahawand with his famous shift to rast at 8:35 (he executed this move in many of his dors I heard, very conventional .. making you appreciate the more novel ways of Hilmi).

    And he apparently continues Rast for the rest of the next section
    (confirmation needed)
    .[/Again I want to repeat my question: is the alby 3aleik section in rast? or gaharkah?)
    (...)
    Can anyone analyse the last minute please

    By the way, can anyone remember the Abdel-Halim parody? Did he sing it in bayyati or in saba? I cannot recall and I don't have the recording
    Fred promised to answer you, but, it couldn't find the time for this and for a couple of other things. So, let me give it a try.
    The shift from nahawand to rast is indeed a very conventional one (just think of kadni-l-hawa for instance) or, at least, has it become so. This said, the even more orthodox shift when you are in nahawand is to move to bayati, not to rast.
    From min 8' 36" on to min 13' 44", what you have is mostly rast with two quite simlar sikah interludes in min 10' 08" and 12' 07", which answers your next question concerning the first part of the hank ('ana qalbi 'alik). As far as I can guess, rast here is on gaharkah (fa), but it is still rast. The second part of the hank after min 13' 44" is in bayati. Have you noticed what he does in min 14' 41"? It would be wrong to depreciate Manyalawi's art in favours of Hilmi's. Both are grand masters, but with different esthetic approaches.
    What happens in "the last minute" is simple. Manyalawi reverts back to huzam, the baic maqam of the dawr.
    Abdelhalim's parody of the hank is in saba.
    أبو علاء

  3. #53
    Bassio Guest

    إفتراضي

    Thank you for your answers abu-alaa.
    I will continue the discussion and elaborate later, maybe late tonight perhaps.

    And of course we are waiting for Fred and others to comment on Manyalawi's great version.

  4. #54
    Bassio Guest

    إفتراضي

    About the sika interludes .. I would never have detected those, I am still completely ignorant when it comes to sika.

    Still it is very difficult for me to diagnose transient colorings which are very short opposed to sections in which I am aided by the instrumental interludes
    Like the one you explained in Sallemt if you recall.
    I can hear them but cannot diagnose.

    So I beg you to tell me exactly what he does in 14' 41", please.

    It would be wrong to depreciate Manyalawi's art in favours of Hilmi's. Both are grand masters, but with different esthetic approaches.
    I never depreciated Manyalawi; in fact I listen to Manyalawi more often than I listen to Hilmi.

    The presence of such too great yet different contemporaries is amazing and represents a 'tarabic' overdose.

    But I doubt that any one else competes with them (even abulila or Higazi, but they have fewer recordings).

    But I still hold my opinion that Hilmi's version is more mythical, although I enjoy listening to both.

    Abdelhalim's parody of the hank is in saba.
    Bingo. It's uplifting when you get it right.

    I hope Fred arrives soon to defend the Manyalawi version.

  5. #55
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    Paris, France
    المشاركات
    1

    إفتراضي

    Sure will, this week end. Sorry for the late answers these days.

  6. #56
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    25

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Bassio مشاهدة مشاركة
    So I beg you to tell me exactly what he does in 14' 41", please.
    He goes down the whole scale of bayati.
    أبو علاء

  7. #57

    إفتراضي

    بعد الشرح الممتع الذي قدمه الأستاذ تيسير حول الصبا، في موضوع آخر، لعله يفتينا برأيه في شأن قسم الصبا (أو المخالف) الذي يحيرنا هاهنا،

    كما أن مصطفى باشا مطلوب دائماً إلى المشاركة متى سمحت له ظروفه

  8. #58
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    Paris, France
    المشاركات
    1

    إفتراضي

    This is a new filtering of this record, much more satisfactory, slightly slowed down + addition of the 4th side, mawwāl Qūm fe dugā l-lēl in huzām version, different from the Gramophone rast rendition already on the forum.
    I will not delete the former version, considering that all the commentaries were based on its speed. Maybe later I will prepare an "old speed" version of the piece, though.
    الملفات المرفقة الملفات المرفقة

  9. #59
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
    المشاركات
    96

    إفتراضي

    What an utter delight, thank you


    روحي الفداء لكلّ كفءٍ عارفٍ............أهوي على قدميه غير مبال
    أتريد معرفة الجحيم بكنهها؟............إن الجحيم لصحبة الجهّال
    Mustapha Said - Rubaiyyat

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